In my experience designing css for ie and firefox, microsoft didnt follow the w3c standard for ie, thus the output sometimes different in ie and firefox. What I always do is use other css properties which both are supported and have the same output in ie and firefox. this is to have one css for both ie and firefox, or i use 2 css seperately for ie and firefox. BTW, cool tips from Ethan.Ellis. i never knew i could do that. i usuallly use use javascript to detect ie or firefox browser.