Are tables really dead?

Originally Posted by NuPixel Just because someone codes with tables does not make them a bad coder. If you wish to state that, state it as an opinion, and don't make it sound like a fact.

Why would I state it as an opinion when I believe it to be a fact? Perhaps the nuances of the thought are not expressed by that off the cuff statement. Thus, I have prepared a re-worded version that (hopefully) will communicate better: One who uses Tables for layout is producing un-semantic code. This may be because the coded has too much trouble producing a layout just using valid (X)HTML and CSS. Whatever the case, the result is excessive markup that adds no meaning to the document. This is a negative effect, and as such, the code should be considered "bad". Of course there or more negatives we could add to the list. Things like larger file size, difficult maintenance, lack of support for multiple devices, accessibility issues, and so on with the litany that I'm sure you've all heard about while listening to anybody preach the gospel of CSS.

And as long as we are re-wording here, perhaps you should instead say, "Just because I code with tables, does not make me a bad coder."

Originally Posted by insub2 Why would I state it as an opinion when I believe it to be a fact? Perhaps the nuances of the thought are not expressed by that off the cuff statement. Thus, I have prepared a re-worded version that (hopefully) will communicate better: One who uses Tables for layout is producing un-semantic code. This may be because the coded has too much trouble producing a layout just using valid (X)HTML and CSS. Whatever the case, the result is excessive markup that adds no meaning to the document. This is a negative effect, and as such, the code should be considered "bad". Of course there or more negatives we could add to the list. Things like larger file size, difficult maintenance, lack of support for multiple devices, accessibility issues, and so on with the litany that I'm sure you've all heard about while listening to anybody preach the gospel of CSS. And as long as we are re-wording here, perhaps you should instead say, "Just because I code with tables, does not make me a bad coder."

How can you believe it is fact with no scientific proof?

Originally Posted by Lamonte How can you believe it is fact with no scientific proof?

I gave a argument that consisted of both premise and conclusion. Each premise is testable. Therefore, my statement is, in fact, substantiated by scientific evidence.

Originally Posted by NuPixel You said you believe it to be fact. By the statement that you believe it makes it your own opinion, that does not make it fact in the whole scheme of things. Until you can prove that someone who codes with tables is a bad coder, then you should say that you feel those who code with tables are bad coders. Last I knew there was no rule in "HTML Coding" that sayd coding in tables is a bad thing. Those who say that are speaking from their own experience or opinion.

now we are just arguing semantics. ...and that is funny because it's ironic.

you see, if i am trying to convince another person that what i believe is a fact, i should not state "it is my opinion..." but, rather, simply state what i believe. it is obvious that what i am saying is something i believe.

as for the meat, using table for layout is bad practice. ...for all the reasons i have already stated.

Originally Posted by derek lapp blue is the choice of a good designer. orange is the choice of bad designer.

I like your joke.

Originally Posted by insub2 Why would I state it as an opinion when I believe it to be a fact? Perhaps the nuances of the thought are not expressed by that off the cuff statement. Thus, I have prepared a re-worded version that (hopefully) will communicate better: One who uses Tables for layout is producing un-semantic code. This may be because the coded has too much trouble producing a layout just using valid (X)HTML and CSS. Whatever the case, the result is excessive markup that adds no meaning to the document. This is a negative effect, and as such, the code should be considered "bad". Of course there or more negatives we could add to the list. Things like larger file size, difficult maintenance, lack of support for multiple devices, accessibility issues, and so on with the litany that I'm sure you've all heard about while listening to anybody preach the gospel of CSS. And as long as we are re-wording here, perhaps you should instead say, "Just because I code with tables, does not make me a bad coder."

You said you believe it to be fact. By the statement that you believe it makes it your own opinion, that does not make it fact in the whole scheme of things. Until you can prove that someone who codes with tables is a bad coder, then you should say that you feel those who code with tables are bad coders. Last I knew there was no rule in "HTML Coding" that sayd coding in tables is a bad thing. Those who say that are speaking from their own experience or opinion.