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Originally Posted by eric_bobbitt
Alright, I want to clear some things up so that hopefully this topic can continue in a respectful manner. My previous post about this thread being pointless was not so much based on people putting false information as much as people are just blinding posting based upon what they "think" they know about something. I did not post this thread so that we could all get together and just blindly rant about standards or what browser sucks / doesn't suck.This doesn't have anything to do with clients either. Do not think of this thread pertaining to designing with standards with clients. Client work, you do what they ask you too, and try to convince them that your way is right, and either way do exactly what they want you too. This whole thread on standards is to have a civil discussion about them as they pertain to the internet.
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If we were doing that. We'd be talking about HTTPs, SMTPs, FTPs and all manor of Transfer Protocols. You are talking about specific Internet Standards are you not? Those which pertain to Broswer Rendering. There is no way to make them purely about Standards without going through all the standards and saying what makes sense and what does not. If designers want to blame the way a Browser renders something; they have a bias to whichever.
What is strange of course in Firefox as many may know - it does not conform to a Web Technology. If I was a webdesigner - and I wanted my customers to be able to drag and drop files from their PC to the Internet in order to save and transfer, or to add as an Avatar in a complex and easy Forum System, or to have highly advantageous E-Mail Client Systems which allowed E-Mails to be saved on the Computers and so on, Files to be E-Mail, files to be shared - all manor of great Site possibilities - I would use ActiveX. There is no other way. My users would not be able to use Firefox for this would they. Rendering problems are one thing that change views. In essence - Firefox stops designers from doing a whole bunch of things that would make the Internet great - and do make MSN Explorer great. Miniclip for instance; Windows Update, the upcoming Microsoft Update. MSN Groups.
Even My MSN doesn't render properly in Firefox - its in Javascript! Completely standards compliant and Firefox can't do it.
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Originally Posted by eric_bobbitt
I would like to have an educated discussion as well, which is why I've posted about the false information. This is becoming an opinion based topic rather than a fact based one, and that isn't where I wanted this to go.
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You could always point out why things are falsities instead of just saying its False. That is counter productive and if you did that on a Forum with proper debators you'd be slaughtered. Its not good debate Eticate.
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Originally Posted by eric_bobbitt
Lord Kalthorn I think you have some interesting points to bring up, but somehow they seem to get lost in some other topics you start to rant with. I am interested in your input on this subject, especially since you are a die hard microsoft fan, but I'd like to ask you to research some of the topics you are posting about. A lot of what you post has the right direction, but mis-informed information.
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Well then point it out. You're never going to get your point over without any evidence, let alone without even pointing out what is misinformed. You can't just talk about Standards - this goes beyond Standards. If you want to talk about Standards go and Post a Thread with the complete W3 Standards Set in it and we can happily debate what is good and bad.
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Originally Posted by eric_bobbitt
derek.l Ah Derek, what do I say to you. You obviously have a good direction on what you are trying to express, but I feel as though someone's you are just posting in an upset mood on the topic. I would love nothing more for you to keep posting, but as I said to Lord Kalthorn, I think you need to post more facts rather than hearsay. Please do not take that the wrong way, but I think if you research some of things in your last post you will see what I mean.
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Again; researching everything he says is not going to help him
He obviously knows it or he wouldn't say it. You actually have to point out what you think is wrong in order to debunk it. You can't debunk an entire Post by simply saying he needs to reseach it - again you'd be slaughtered on the sort of Forums these topics and length of debates come up on.
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Originally Posted by eric_bobbitt
Legendary Please dont post here again unless you intend to actually participate in the discussion.
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He did. You need to work out how to say that with eticate
If you want to completely debunk somebody you're going to need to actually do it - not merely say he's silly. You might as well slap him and run away shouting I'll get my daddy on you.
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Originally Posted by eric_bobbitt
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The first is using Divs in Divs; its just not clean in the first place. Perhaps just a problem with PHP but either way were he designing it for his users instead of himself he would have tested it all the way through in Internet Explorer and had the problem fixed. I do however think its a PHP rendering problem in how it pumps out its code. If so... standards compliance would fix the problem but eitherway he should be using a reak Web Programming Language like ASP.NET which would pump out XHTML and would have support for his users; not himself.
The second is a thing against Standards. The user has a problem viewing in Firefox; which is apparently standards compliant... I wonder why there's a problem if Standards are so perfect and Internet Explorer so vile?
The third:
Code:
<div id="main">
<div id="news" style="width: 450px; height: 468px">
<img src="images/news_updates.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />
<p>NEWS N UPDATESBLAHLAHLHLAHLAHNEWS N UPDATESBLAHLAHLHLAHLAHLNEWS N
UPDATESBLAHLAHLHLAHLAHLNEWS N UPDATESBLAHLAHLHLAHLAHLL<br />
<br />
<br />
This is THe MockupCOnOEINTO:ISNO:CINE
</p>
<p>NEWS N UPDATESBLAHLAHLHLAHLAHNEWS N UPDATESBLAHLAHLHLAHLAHLNEWS N
UPDATESBLAHLAHLHLAHLAHLNEWS N UPDATESBLAHLAHLHLAHLAHLL<br />
<br />
<br />
This is THe MockupCOnOEINTO:ISNO:CINE
</p>
<p>NEWS N UPDATESBLAHLAHLHLAHLAHNEWS N UPDATESBLAHLAHLHLAHLAHLNEWS N
UPDATESBLAHLAHLHLAHLAHLNEWS N UPDATESBLAHLAHLHLAHLAHLL<br />
<br />
<br />
This is THe MockupCOnOEINTO:ISNO:CINE
</p>
<img src="images/news_bot.jpg" border="0" alt="" /></div>
<div id="random">
<img src="images/random_top.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />
<p>RANDOM!RANDOMRANODNONFON AONFON AOFNOANFOA OFNOFANONFANOA</p>
<img src="images/random_bot.jpg" border="0" alt="" /></div>
<div id="spotlight">
<img src="images/spot_top.jpg" border="0" alt="" /><br />
<p>This is THe MockupCOnOEINTO:ISNO:CINE
</p>
<p>NEWS N UPDATESBLAHLAHLHLAHLAHNEWS N UPDATESBLAHLAHLHLAHLAHLNEWS N
UPDATESBLAHLAHLHLAHLAHLNEWS N UPDATESBLAHLAHLHLAHLAHLL<br />
<br />
<br />
</p>
<img src="images/spot_bot.jpg" border="0" alt="" /></div>
</div>
I wonder where the spaces are coming from... he says sarcastically. When you put <BR /> in you expect a space. You don't expect the Tag to do nothing. Or do the standards think BR means do nothing I am just 6 charactors to fill space in this code.
I would point out the innaccuracy in number five - but I can't bring up his page for some reason.
Number Six is the same problem - I cannot view the Firefox version because the image is down however - the Opera and Internet Explorer versions look identical. Except for the whopping great advert on Opera
Number Seven is just silly. You can't blame somebody's inability to centre a Div on Internet Explorer and you can't say Standards - which are already in CSS and he couldn't sort them out - would make him any brighter.
The PNG Problem in number four is the only reasonable point in this entire list. A problem being fixed in Version 7; likely as we type.
Moving on...