Tables work just fine too

I know everyone is always stirring on the issue of table-less versus tables as well as the subject of validity based on W3C's standards.

Sure, tables work fine and dandy. They get the job done and keep the template looking just like the .PSD that took so much of your effort to make.

I personally use table-less coding for its accessibility and I feel that the code looks one hundred percent more clean.

As for validity, sure you can argue that W3C's validating check can in some cases pass a design that is coded in tables but do you think it should?

Where does everyone stand on the topic of both validity and the use of tables?

Can using tables to structure your design validate against the W3C guidelines? Yes. Is it good, semantic, mark-up suitable for general design structure? Nope.

I'm against using tables as a means of codifying the design. But, I'm also against those people who use really shoddy "valid" code (DIV-soup) who seem to think that just because it validates, that's the zenith of good HTML code.

I am agains the tables as well, but not going to absolutism. I use whatever works easy, well and allows modifying. Sometimes tables simply do the things better and easier

I dont have an issue with tables. Most people dont know this, but you can have tables and by XHTML valid.Tables are simpler then div, I use them unless a client says no.

Originally Posted by Jeff Andersen As for validity, sure you can argue that W3C's validating check can in some cases pass a design that is coded in tables but do you think it should?

Yep, like I said... if done right it'll validate but can you vouch for tables accessibility? To me they're the worst when it comes to that.

I myself use table-less coding, however I do use tables when tables should be used. For example many developers that are for the whole 'div' route of doing things completely ignore tables in any scenarios with a passion. When I'm building something like an admin panel that will for example, have a view users page that lists all of the registered users and their details in separate columns. That would be the point where I use a table, for 'tabular' data hence the name. But I have noticed developers using tons and tons of div's to do that same effect a table would and it bugs me.

Needless to say, there's a time and place for both styles.

I personally like both, but in terms of accessibility and semantic code, tableless is the way to go.

And like Salathe said, div-soup is "the sucks".

(Is codifying a word?)

Andrew: codifying

Coders who have taken the time and effort to learn tableless coding understand when I say that coding without tables makes your life easier. It's quicker and easier to code a page without tables (once you're proficient) and it's much easier to change and update in the future.

All other benefits are secondary in my opinion. The search engine benefits are minor, but present and the page size benefits are also fairly minor. The benefits to my sanity as a coder is priceless.

I use tables for tabular data.

Tables are for displaying tabular data. If you wanted to lay out a calender for instance, sure you could do it with block-level elements and CSS, but it's technically valid to use tables for it.

When it comes to document structure, layout etc... you're not displaying tabular data (unless the page is just a huge sheet of data). Correct, table-based layouts will be valid in any HTML, including XHTML 1.1 at the latest, but for people with disabilities, they sometimes linearise tables in their browser. They learn to read from this method and thus it works for them. Table-based layouts would look very strange in this form... although it would appear in the same order, the page would be in bits and pieces.

Table-less layouts are on the increase, as more people are realizing the benefits. e.g. you could have 5 <div>s and an external stylesheet as oppose to a <table>, 3 <tr>s and possibly 10 <td>s. Sounds bare minimal, but when you think that the stylesheet is cached for most users, loading times can be reduced dramatically by using CSS where possible. Especially if you have multiple pages with the same structure and layout.

I'm not an article writer and so Ima shush now... but is definitly good practise to use CSS-based layouts rather than table-based